In a groundbreaking podcast episode on June 21, 2024, Genfinity convened a panel of visionary developers at the forefront of innovation on the Internet Computer (ICP). This dynamic discussion illuminated the diverse applications and transformative potential of blockchain technology, showcasing the insights and ambitions of pioneers shaping the future of decentralized computing.
Our Developer Panel
Magic Swap
Mattias, the founder of Magic Swap on the Internet Computer, introduced the platform as a pivotal tool for facilitating trading. Essentially, Magic Swap simplifies transactions on ICP by providing a comprehensive suite of trading tools, including charts, liquidity insights, and a DEX aggregator that enables seamless swaps across various decentralized exchanges. Importantly, the platform operates on a non-custodial basis, ensuring user assets remain under their direct control without intermediary intervention.
His journey in the cryptocurrency space began in 2017 amidst the initial boom of Bitcoin and Ethereum. Over time, Mattias explored different blockchain networks, eventually settling on the Internet Computer in November 2022. It was on the ICP chain that his interest in development flourished, driven by the protocol’s innovative features that he had experienced firsthand while trading. Subsequently, the appeal of gas-free transactions and instant processing capabilities solidified his dedication to exploring the platform’s potential.
Demergent Labs
Jordan Last, founder of Demergent Labs, elaborated on his company’s mission during the interview. Divergent Labs focuses on developing open-source tools tailored for the Internet Computer, aiming to bridge the gap between Web2 and Web3 technologies. Overall, their primary objective revolves around enabling developers to utilize familiar languages like TypeScript, JavaScript, and Python on the ICP platform. This initiative allows developers to leverage their existing skill sets to build applications seamlessly.
“Our whole goal,” Jordan explained, “is to bring Web2 technologies to Web3.” Notably, this involves enabling functionalities such as NPM and pip installations directly on ICP, simplifying the process for developers to integrate and utilize various packages effortlessly. Furthermore, their efforts extend to enhancing support for Rust and C++, ensuring broader accessibility and compatibility across different coding languages.
Jordan’s fascination with computer science and web technologies traces back to his academic background. His journey into the cryptocurrency space began in 2017, driven by a growing interest in Bitcoin and Ethereum. Delving deeper into blockchain technology, he discovered the Internet Computer Protocol, developed by the DFINITY Foundation. His admiration for ICP stemmed from its vision of a decentralized “world computer” and its promise of a scalable virtual machine.
“And I fell in love with the world-computer vision and the idea of a virtual machine that could scale without bounds, so that’s what I’m hoping ICP can become.” -Jordan Last.
Toniq Labs
The Co-Founder & CEO of Toniq Labs, Bob Bodily, also joined us, elaborating on his team’s work in constructing Bitcoin infrastructure and tooling by leveraging the unique protocol primitives available on ICP. Notably, their efforts included utilizing features such as threshold signing with threshold signatures, subnets, and a wrapped version of Bitcoin known as ckBTC. Additionally, they integrated Ordinals into their framework and deployed a Bitcoin Lightning node that was fully operational on the ICP chain. This setup enabled users to access Bitcoin balances and specific UTXOs associated with addresses, paving the way for innovative interoperability solutions within the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Their focus on integrating these technologies began in February 2023, shortly after the launch of the Ordinals Protocol, which quickly gained traction. Convinced of its potential, Bob’s team swiftly pivoted to harnessing the capabilities of Ordinals and other unique Bitcoin technologies within the ICP environment. This initiative aimed to bridge the gap between ICP and Bitcoin, exploring synergies between these distinct blockchain worlds. “We’ve been dedicated to building on Bitcoin tech since February 2023,” Bob emphasized, highlighting their transition from previous projects on ICP to their current focus.
Revolutionizing DEXs: Magic Swap’s Unique Approach
Mattias explained what sets Magic Swap apart from other DEXs. Rather than functioning as a standalone DEX, Magic Swap positions itself as an index aggregator. He noted that on the Internet Computer currently, there exists a lack of interconnectedness between different indexes. Consequently, users often need to switch between platforms to execute trades, causing friction in the trading experience. Magic Swap aims to address this issue by eliminating barriers between these platforms, thereby enhancing user convenience.
Moreover, the founder emphasized their goal to establish a platform akin to popular tools like DEX Screener or DEXTools, specifically tailored for the Internet Computer ecosystem. Their unique approach involves hosting this functionality entirely on-chain, ensuring transparency and security. This initiative aims to boost the visibility and adoption of the Internet Computer and facilitate cross-chain functionality, a pivotal aspect of their strategy.
“For us,” Mattias highlighted, “this includes catering to cross-chain users, such as those dealing with assets like ckBTC. We emphasize leveraging the advantages of ICP, such as lower fees and faster transaction times, without requiring constant token bridging or managing multiple wallets.”
MCSM: Empowering Token Creators on Magic Swap
Since starting Magic Swap, Mattias noted that they have developed another dApp called MCSM, which they plan to rework and refresh soon. This platform serves as a space for token creators to establish immutable and verifiably secure environments for launching their tokens. Additionally, he noted that the platform has already attracted more than 50 projects, showcasing the growing interest and trust within their community. Additionally, he expressed pride in the community’s dedication and the collective effort that has contributed to the platform’s success thus far.
In essence, Magic Swap’s innovative use of index aggregation and dApps on the Internet Computer promises to streamline trading processes and enhance accessibility across different blockchain networks, setting it apart in the competitive landscape of decentralized exchanges.
Coding Language Adoption and Ecosystem Integration: A Competitive Advantage
Our first inquiry for Jordan centered around the significance of Python and TypeScript coding languages and their prevalence among developers, especially in comparison to languages like Solidity within the blockchain space.
Jordan of Demergent Labs outlined his theory, which is grounded in the principle of minimizing unnecessary tasks for developers. His focus was particularly on leveraging the powerful network effects inherent in programming languages. For instance, he discussed the longevity and entrenched position of languages like C++ despite its challenges, noting Rust as a recent challenger in terms of adoption and future potential.
Moreover, he emphasized the difficulty developers face in switching ecosystems due to the time and effort invested in mastering a language. Significantly, he pointed to Solidity as a notable success within blockchain development but underscored the scarcity of blockchain developers compared to the substantial numbers proficient in JavaScript and Python — contrasting tens of thousands in blockchain with millions in mainstream programming. These languages, established in the 1990s with broad adoption, form a solid foundation for diverse development applications.
The core idea, he explained, revolves around integrating Web3 and, specifically, ICP into the existing ecosystem where Python and JavaScript will eventually be treated as primary languages. He pointed out that currently, these languages are not given first-class status on most blockchain platforms. To address this gap, his team has been actively working on the TypeScript and JavaScript project for approximately two years, aiming to achieve Production Readiness for version 1.0 in the coming months.
Python’s Evolution on the Internet Computer
Looking ahead, the Co-Founder expressed optimism about Python potentially becoming a first-class citizen on ICP by 2025, enabling advanced functionalities such as AI and machine learning applications. This strategic roadmap underscores their commitment to enhancing accessibility and usability for developers within the blockchain ecosystem.
In summary, Jordan’s vision integrates his insights into language adoption and emphasizes the strategic imperative of positioning the Internet Computer as an inviting platform for mainstream languages. By doing so, he aims to enhance developer engagement and foster innovation. This approach aligns with ICP’s goal of becoming the blockchain that attracts developers, leveraging the familiarity and widespread use of mainstream languages to achieve this objective.
Integrating Python and JavaScript on the ICP Chain: Project Incentives and Benefits
We asked Jordan whether a platform is being developed for this integration, if a token will be involved for incentivization, and how the project aims to benefit from incorporating JavaScript or Python into the Internet Computer.
Open Value Sharing
Jordan explained that their current projects were based on simple SDKs easily installable from NPM, with both projects being MIT licensed. Looking ahead, they considered two potential models for future implementation. Firstly, the initial model involved a tokenization approach, contingent upon legal compliance and regulatory developments such as the Fit 21 Bill. However, he emphasized a more conservative approach for their imminent launch. Their latest protocol, aptly named Open Value Sharing, had already been integrated into the main system after rigorous testing phases.
Under this protocol, which he described as an open-source native business model, developers wouldn’t need to alter their business licenses or adopt specialized closed-source versions. Instead, they could continue using standard licenses like MIT, BSD, or Apache. The fundamental concept behind Open Value Sharing was its unique revenue mechanism. When developers integrated the JavaScript SDK into an ICP application or “canister,” a small default percentage (10%) of the computational cycles consumed by the canister would be redirected. These cycles, known as internet computer cycles (similar to Ethereum gas), were already used to pay for network resources.
The Demergent Labs Co-founder elaborated that this 10% of cycles would be distributed among all dependencies of the canister. Given that open-source software typically relies on numerous dependencies — ranging from 200 to 500 libraries in many cases — this approach aims to provide a sustainable revenue stream for these essential components. Notably, the protocol was designed to be agnostic to specific platforms, potentially applicable beyond ICP, although their initial launch would focus on leveraging the infrastructure provided by ICP.
Overall, Jordan’s project seeks to innovate by introducing a novel revenue-sharing model through Open Value Sharing, ensuring that the vast ecosystem of open-source dependencies could receive consistent support directly linked to the computational resources they consumed on the internet computer platform.
Expanding Bitcoin’s Functionality on the Internet Computer
Moving along in the interview, we asked Bob to elaborate on Bitcoin’s potential for expanding its functionality, specifically in light of its current ability to inscribe data onto the chain, an area where ICP already possesses advanced primitives. Essentially, we sought Bob’s insights into how Bitcoin could enhance its capabilities, possibly by adopting features similar to those on ICP, to increase its versatility and application possibilities within blockchain technology.
Bob elaborated on the potential for Bitcoin to expand functionality, particularly in terms of securing assets on-chain, a concept well-established on ICP. He highlighted the distinctive advantage of Ordinals, where images and assets are entirely stored on the blockchain, contrasting with the typical approach where NFTs often reference off-chain content on IPFS.
Bitcoin offers an additional layer of security as a decentralized, censorship-resistant database, which is often overlooked in discussions about its role as a store of value or medium of exchange. Additionally, it has the potential to provide immutable storage, ensuring assets remain secure indefinitely, which he believed holds significant promise for creators using Ordinals.
Notably, he discussed the market potential for Ordinals within the broader Bitcoin ecosystem, drawing parallels to Ethereum’s success with NFTs and tokens. He envisioned a future where Bitcoin’s market dominance could catalyze similar innovations to new heights. With this momentum, the Co-Founder & CEO of Toniq outlined their focus on enhancing programmability and usability for Ordinals, making it easier for creators to engage with their assets.
Ultimately, their goal is to empower users with features such as dynamic upgrades, staking mechanisms, and interactive applications that add value and utility to their holdings. The aim is to provide a platform where users can actively utilize and interact with their assets, transforming them from static tokens into dynamic elements of engagement and utility.
Exploring the Evolution of Blockchain Inscriptions
Around a year ago, initiatives like Ordinals and BRC-20 brought the concept to Bitcoin, allowing data to be inscribed directly onto the blockchain. Transitioning to Ethscriptions on Ethereum, the approach involved posting messages in calldata rather than smart contract data, which proved cost-effective by shifting computational tasks off-chain to indexers.
Furthermore, the concept expanded rapidly across multiple blockchains, with inscriptions becoming widespread. Practitioners explored methods to store messages directly on blockchain ledgers, utilizing off-chain indexers to manage inscription states. Innovations like Celestia emerged as data availability layers, supporting the modular approach advocated by the Ethereum community.
However, leveraging the inscriptions layer instead of native smart contracts presented trade-offs, particularly in terms of computational efficiency. Despite these considerations, Bob emphasized the suitability of meta protocols like Ordinals within the inscriptions meta, especially for Bitcoin. Given Bitcoin’s limited computational capabilities at the L1 layer, moving computations off-chain represented a significant enhancement, albeit with associated trade-offs.
In conclusion, the Toniq CEO marveled at the extent of possibilities unlocked by integrating off-chain indexers to support meta protocols on Bitcoin, showcasing the versatility and innovation within the blockchain space.
Blockchain Signatures and Interoperability
The CEO explained the intricacies of blockchain signatures and interoperability protocols. He highlighted that Bitcoin predominantly utilized ECDSA signatures for most transactions, except for Taproot transactions, which employed Schnorr signatures. This standardization extended to other major blockchains like Ethereum and various layer-two networks, which also relied on ECDSA signatures, particularly those within the Ethereum Virtual Machine (EVM) ecosystem.
However, Bob pointed out significant developments that have been set to enhance cryptographic capabilities on the Internet computer platform. He noted upcoming implementations of threshold signature types, such as Schnorr and EdDSA, akin to those utilized by the Solana blockchain and other innovative platforms. These advancements promised comprehensive coverage across blockchain technologies, nearing an estimated 95% scope of application.
Moreover, he underscored the potential of these protocol primitives to facilitate seamless cross-chain integration on ICP. He emphasized their strategic importance for projects focusing on Bitcoin Native Assets, aiming to expand interoperability within the Bitcoin ecosystem. Furthermore, he critiqued the current state of blockchain interoperability, highlighting issues of user and liquidity fragmentation across diverse protocols, meta protocols, token standards, and layer-twos. Existing solutions like Layer Zero, Wormhole, and Particle Network attempted to address these challenges but fell short in providing robust interoperability options. Notably, Wormhole’s use of a threshold Schnorr setup, similar to ICP’s upcoming implementation, hinted at promising avenues for interoperability solutions.
Looking ahead, he envisions a Layer Zero solution that prioritized integrating Bitcoin Native Assets, encompassing Bitcoin protocols, sidechains, meta protocols, and Lightning Network capabilities. This strategic approach aimed to unify and enhance interoperability across the broader Bitcoin ecosystem, including innovations like RGB, Taproot assets, and counterparty solutions.
Leveraging this model could establish a robust interoperability hub layer that is capable of bridging diverse blockchain innovations. Currently, there are ongoing efforts to advance these interoperability solutions in the near term.
The Future of Internet Computer
In regards to the future, Bob envisions a landscape where blockchain technology seamlessly integrates into everyday development practices. He emphasized the advancements led by Jordan and their team in enhancing the developer experience and abstracting blockchain complexities.
Moreover, he highlighted the transformative potential of interoperability innovations on the ICP platform, particularly with threshold signature subnets and oracle functionalities. These developments promised to unify disparate blockchain ecosystems, addressing issues of user fragmentation and liquidity.
He painted a picture of an “internet of blockchains,” where developers could effortlessly build cross-chain applications without being constrained by specific blockchain implementations. This vision aimed to simplify blockchain development to the point where familiarity with languages like JavaScript, TypeScript, or Python would suffice, supported by straightforward HTTP requests and blockchain configurations.
It’s clear that Bob’s vision for the future is centered around creating a developer-friendly environment where blockchain technology fades into the background, enabling the creation of sophisticated applications on a unified, high-performance blockchain platform. This approach would unlock new possibilities in computing power, memory, and storage, ushering in a new era of innovation and accessibility in blockchain technology.
Bridging the Present to a Future of Global Computing
Considering future possibilities, Jordan outlined two distinct visions. Firstly, he articulated a conservative outlook focused on imminent developments in the regulatory landscape, particularly in the United States. He anticipated these regulatory advancements would set a global precedent despite acknowledging that other regions had already made significant strides. Additionally, he pointed out the growing adoption of stablecoins worldwide and highlighted user experience improvements, such as Coinbase Wallet’s adoption of passkeys, simplifying access without traditional seed phrases. He expressed optimism about the potential mainstream adoption of stablecoins, foreseeing a future where everything from stocks to car titles could be tokenized, enhancing security and reducing fraud.
Furthermore, he dove into a more audacious and speculative vision. He acknowledged the inherent risk in his aspirations for a global computer that could process all computational tasks — a monumental endeavor. In this futuristic scenario, Jordan envisioned a seamless development environment where programmers could focus solely on application logic. He imagined integrating familiar tools like MySQL for database management and deploying applications effortlessly with guaranteed security, uptime, and scalability to infinite levels. This vision contrasted sharply with the complexities of current, centralized cloud platforms like AWS, which require extensive management beyond application logic.
Jordan’s ambitious vision for the Internet Computer encapsulated a desire for a paradigm shift in computing infrastructure. He hopes for a future where developers can leverage blockchain technology to streamline application deployment and enhance security, ultimately realizing the platform’s potential to revolutionize global computing standards.
Stay Updated
Our exclusive interview with Magic Swap, Demergent Labs, and Toniq Labs underscores a collective drive toward innovation and integration within the blockchain space. From revolutionizing decentralized exchanges to enhancing developer accessibility and advancing interoperability across blockchain ecosystems, these leaders exemplify the spirit of exploration and innovation essential to ushering in a new era of global computing on the Internet Computer platform. As they continue to push boundaries and redefine possibilities, their efforts promise to shape the future landscape of blockchain technology, bridging the present to a future where decentralized solutions empower individuals and enterprises alike.
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